Shooter The movie opens with the murder of the Waynes/Bruce falling into a cave of bats. We may have seen those events before, but never so visually stunning in my opinion and the music only makes it more powerful. We see bats rising young Bruce towards the light, but it's only a dream. "A beautiful lie." In reality, he's still in surrounded by darkness, until the end of the movie. But more on that later.
Ovo si super primjetio da je viđeno prije. Ne samo da je viđeno nego je već lagano previše puta viđeno, u svim mogućim oblicima i medijima.
E sad! Je li dobar vizualni prikaz dovoljni razlog da se u filmu koji ionako ima previše scena ponovo troši vrijeme na to?
Po meni nije.
Batmanov origin svi znaju.
Nisam milsio da ću Marvel spomenuti već, ali mislim da je Homecoming savršeni primjer da se može i bez toga i bez patroniziranja publike.
Shooter The next scene shows us the battle of Metropolis from Bruce's perspective. This is when his resentment toward Superman is born. He sees Superman and Zod throwing each other into buildings, resulting in loss of many civilian lives, including Bruce's employees. He talks to a man he knows by name on the phone just before he dies, sees another one crippled and holds a girl that just lost her mother to the battle of these aliens. In Bruce's eyes, Superman is at least partially responsible for all that death and destruction. The fact that there was nothing Bruce could do against such powerful aliens only adds to his misery and makes him even angrier. As Alfred puts it: "That's how it starts. The fever, the rage. The feeling of powerlessness that turns good man cruel."
Ne samo da je Superman parcijalno odgovoran za pokolj milijuna ljudi i uništenja cijelog grada (koji je naravno do JL cijeli obnovljen) nego je direktno odgovoran za to.
Način na koji je taj fajt odrađen u MoS je apsolutno kinematografsko i dramaturgijsko smeće čija je jedina svrha nakrcati trailer sa atraktivnim scenama.
Shooter Fast-forward 18 months. Lois goes to Africa to interview some warlord, problems arise and Superman flews in to rescue her. Lex Luthor has mercenaries in place that kill warlord's men and burn the bodies, making it look like Superman killed them. Later, Lex even bribes and threatens a witness into lying about Superman's involvement. This has the world start questioning Superman and whether he should be allowed to act on his own. It also reinforces Bruce's belief that Superman could indeed be a loose cannon and a threat to the humanity's future. This storyline was probably the most butchered part in the theatrical version.
Ovo nije butcherano u theatrical cutu nego je jedna od onih nepotrebno predugih scena koje Snyder konstantno ubacuje u svoje filmove i.e. predstavljanje Diane u JL koje će po trailerima biti zadržano u njegovom cutu.
Ali ok, ova scena bar ima veze sa ostatkom filma i pridodaje radnji, a negativci svoju svrhu ispunjavaju i gledaoc je ostavljen sa jasnom slikom u glavi o čemu će biti ostatak filma.
Plus - Superman hladnokrvno ubije osobu sa osmjehom na licu.
Shooter Batman's first appearance in the movie is amazing. Batman is supposed to be scary and intimidating, the reason criminals are afraid the go out at night. At while we've him use that fear as a weapon before in live-action(his first appearance in Batman Begins, for instance), here he's scarier than he ever was. The entire scene looked like something out of a horror movie.
Ok scena, ali Batman puže po stropu ko Spider-man?
Eh?!
Shooter He's investigating White Portugese, a man who's allegently bringing a dirty bomb in Gotham. We get an easter egg when Alfred comments that White Portugese may not even be a man, or may not exist at all for that matter, a phantasm. A clear reference to Mask of the Phantasm animated movie. Alfred also comments on Batman's new rules - branding the criminals. It is never explained why he does it. Perhaps simply to make them suffer. Maybe it's a reminder of what they did and what happened to them because of it. What will happen if they do it again. Or maybe he does it for future reference, so if he bumps into them again he'll know they are repeat offenders. I myself think it's the second reason.
Dio sa White Portugeseom je ok. Ja bi puno više cjenio tu priču da su više fokusa stavili na sami detective work, nešto što niti jedan Batman film ne prikazuje niti u približno dovoljnim količinama.
Brandanje mi je osobno bezveze i gubi se taj dojam Batmanovog no-nonsense pristupa i svrhovitosti.
Al to je zanemarivi problem.
Shooter The first time we see Lex he already has his eyes on kryptonite. He tells a story of his father living in East Germany, having to march every other Saturday for tyrants. He tries to get an import licence for the kryptonite from senators, calling it a deterrent in case Superman goes rogue, so that, as he says, their children don't one day end up doing the marching. This is possibly one of Lex's motivations in the movie: fear of Superman. It could also be just his way of manipulating the senators. Soon he gets access to the kryptonian ship and Zod's body that he'll later use against Superman.
Nekak mi je nezamislivo vidjet Lexa koji traži ikoga ikakvu dozvolu ili licencu.
Pričamo o Lexu Luthoru.
Poanta scene je da vidimo da Lex prividno djeluje unutar zakona kao lobist i biznismen. Što u kontekstu priče uopće nije bitno, al point taken i smisleno je.
Shooter We see Wallace Keefe, Bruce's ex employee who lost his legs during the Metropolis battle, paint "false God" on Superman's statue, getting Lex's attention and deeping Clark's doubts about himself.
Tu zapravo dolazimo do jednog velikog problema koji imam sa Snyderom.
Žrtvovanje smisla i zdravog razuma u korist vizuala i simbolike.
Taj grafit je bio strašno veliki marketing tool u reklamiranju ovog filma, a proizlazi isključivo iz podbacivanja Snydera da u MoS napravi smislen i dobar klimaks.
Razina destrukcije i smrti koju je Superman direktno prouzročio u MoS bi trebala biti dovoljna da ga strpa u depresiju puno prije nego netko oskvrne njegov kip, kip koji ne bi trebao niti postojati s obzirom na događaje u MoS.
Ali radi se o Supermanu sa totalno nepostojećim smislom za moral, ali o tome ću kasnije.
Shooter Clark goes to Gotham to interrogate Lex's witness that lied about Superman's activity in Africa. He doesn't find her, but his investigation gets a detour when he finds out that Gotham is in fear of a ruthless vigilante Batman. This is when Clark starts looking into the Dark Knight's activities. Meanwhile, Lois is trying to track down the origin of a bullet she recovered back in Africa.
Znači poanta Batmanovog brandanje je u biti poslužila isključivo kao metoda da Superman sazna za Batmana i turbo licemjerno zaključi da je on zapravo taj koji je negativac.
NAKON što je Superman sravnio sa Zemljom cijeli Metropolis.
Common sense people.
Shooter Senator Finch denies Lex's request for the import license. She says: "Take a bucket of piss and call it Granny's Peach Tea; take a weapon of assassination and call it deterrence. You won't fool a fly or me. I'm not gonna drink it." That line will be important later in the movie. In this scene Lex also comments on a picture on the wall with demons rising from hell, claiming that we the picture should be turned upside down, since we now know that devils don't come from beneath us, that they come from the sky. It gives us more insight into Lex's view of Superman.
Nema apsolutno nikakvog razloga da Lex, kad već tak ljepo pita i ne dobije tu dozvolu koju traži. Pogotovo u svijetu gdje pričamo o Supermanu koji je sravnio Metropolis sa zemljom i o kojem očito već postoje nagađanja da bi mogao bit sumnjivih motiva.
Scena služi isključivo kao forshadowing i setup za foru sa pišalinom kasnije u filmu.
U nekom drugom filmu, ova scena bi bila fora, pogotovo sa kasnijim razvojem situacije, ali ovdje jadnostavno nema svrhu nego kao setup fore.
Simbolika sa slikom demona je iskreno dosta patetična i patronizirajuća.
Nismo glupi.
Shooter Bruce has a dream. He's standing in front of his mother's (Martha Wayne) tombstone and a black liquid starts to pour from it. As he examinates it, a demon-like creature (or humanized bat) jumps out and attacks him. I think this probably symbolizes that his parents' death, his inner demons, still haunt him.
Totalno nepotrebna scena. Batman nije all about parents, postoje momenti u njegovoj povijesti gdje je to bilo bitno i sa pravom se spominje, ali ovdje to nije slučaj.
Jedini razlog za postojanje ove scene je da se u kadru vidi ime Martha.
Shooter Clark and Bruce are both invited to Lex's charity event. Just before the party there is a short scene where Bruce is staring at his empty Batsuit (which by the way looks like a demon smiling, not sure if that's supposed to have some meaning) and turning towards Robin suit with Joker's writing on it, telling us that Robin is already dead. A simple, yet important scene that shows us what Bruce has already been through, another reason why he's so dark and violent in this movie.
Puno značajnija scena za lik Batmana od prethodne. Familija koju je zapravo imao pa opet izgubio.
Savršeni setup za Jasona Todda i njegovo pretvaranje u Jared Letovog Jokera.
Prilika koju nisu iskoristili, ali sa pojavom Snyder Cuta možda dobijemo upravo to, pošto se Jared Letov Joker pojavljuje u filmu.
Držim fige.
Shooter A lot happens during the charity event. Lex's speech reveals another reason he hates Superman - jealousy. He talks about how having knowledge without power is paradoxical and he's clearly furious about it since he loses it a bit towards the end of the speech. Who has power? Superman. He can't stand Superman having that power instead of him. Which is nothing really new for the character, since Lex has always been jealous of Superman.
Ljubomora kao Lexov motiv je puno više inline sa Lexovim egom, iako ovak kak je napravljen u filmu i doza straha može proći.
Nemam problema sa ovom scenom.
Shooter Earlier in the movie, Bruce's investigation into White Portugese led him to Luthor. During the charity event, he places a bug on Lex's computer, which a mystery woman (Diana Prince = Wonder Woman) steals. Using his superhearing, Clark overhears Bruce talking to Alfred about the bug. Clark starts nosing around and engages in conversation with Bruce about Batman. Considering Bruce's simultaneously defensive and passive-agggressive attitude, I believe this is when Clark first realizes that Bruce is in fact Batman. Or at least suspects it.
Bruce Wayne nije Batman.
Ono kaj hoću reći je da je Bruce Wayne jako dobar glumac i ovdje je baš glupo napravljeno da se tak defenzivno outa kao Batman.
Šteta, ta interakcija je mogla bit jako zabavna za vidjet da nisu to ukenjali.
Shooter Clark leaves the event to save a woman from a burning building, which is happening during the Day of the dead. Here begins a montage that's arguably the best scene in the movie. It's a brilliant mix of symbolisms, well-written dialogue, amazing visuals and music. As Superman is bringing the woman to safety, he's smiling, then all the people with the skull make-up (or masks, not sure what it was) start reaching out to him and Superman's face becomes gloom, his eyes turning to the burning building. I believe those people are supposed to represent all the dead he failed to save, and at the same time he's feeling burdened by the fact they're looking at him as a God figure.
During this montage, we see various talk shows and people discussing Superman's role. Is he a messiah? A devil? Just a guy trying to do the right thing? Should he act unilaterally? Are there moral or political constraints on him? And Clark is watching all of this, not sure what to think of it. And what does he do? He calls his mother, hoping to find an answer. A perfect way to show his humanity. Words simply can't do this scene justice.
Ovo je definitivno, uz Batmanov fajt pred kraj, highlight filma i volim tu scenu pogledat uvijek. Definitivno ta scena radi više za poruku filma od svega ostalog kombiniranog.
Na žalost ne funkcionira u širem kontekstu jer je prošli film frajer pobio minimalno milijun ljudi.
Shooter Clark finds out Batman's brand means death sentence, since the criminals with it all get killed in prison. From Clark's point of view, Batman's acting like judge, jury and executioner, but it's actually Lex who has the branded prisoners killed in order to antagonize Batman in Superman's eyes. He's also the one gettting Keefe to show up on a hearing about Superman. The UE really shows Lex as a puppet master, plotting several schemes simultaneously, exploiting Clark's and Bruce's feelings and ideologies to turn them against each other.
Ok. Kužim, jedino ću opet spomenuti Supermanovo licemjerje.
Frajer koji je pobio pola Metropolisa misli da je lik koji ubija kriminalce bad guy.
Zack Snyder - "Killing is bad"
Also Zack Snyder - "Killing is cool"
Shooter There's another scene with Bruce and Diana. Not much is revealed about her, expect that Lex has a picture that belongs to her. She returns the data from Lex's house to Bruce since she can't decrypt it on her own. And there's another potential easter egg here, when Bruce says to her: "You don't know me, but I've known a few women like you" which could be a reference to either Selina Kyle or Talia al Ghul. Or both of them.
Ok. Prvi glimpse u Wonder Woman standalone film, a i JL pošto njih dvoje u biti osnuje JL. Skroz kul, kao i referenca na Catwoman i Taliu, to je poprilično safe zaključak.
Shooter Bruce has a nightmare/vision. He's in what looks like a post-apocalypse, being betrayed by his own men and captured by Superman's men and parademons. Then Superman shows up, kills two prisoners. He takes of Batman's cowl, says "She was my world" and proceeds to kill Batman too. Bruce wakes up and Flash shows up from the future to warn him about Superman, claiming that Bruce has always been right about him and that Lois is the key. Bruce wakes up again. This dream or vision is not explained in the movie, that's almost certainly being left for the Justice League and I really like the fact they kept some questions unanswered. But for now, this scene serves as another insight into Bruce and his fear of Superman.
Isto dosta dobra scena. Tu sam baš bio dosta nabrijan i mislio sam da gledam zapravo Justice League film iz animirane škole. Na žalost ova scena je jedino kaj me na to podsjetila.
Iako je scena zakon, pojavljuje se još jedan ogroman overarching problem gjde se Supermanova motivacija svodi isključivo na Lois Lane slično kak se Batmanova svodi na mrtve roditlje.
Ljudima je toga dosta i ti likovi imaju puno zanimljivijih stvari za ponudit publici od te dvije plitke motivacije.
Shooter The decryption of Lex's data is complete and it reveals that White Portugese is a ship. Bruce reveals to Alfred that it's not really carrying a dirty bomb, it's carrying a kryptonite. And he intends to use it to kill Superman, saying that "He has the power to wipe out the entire human race, and if we believe there's even a 1% chance that he is our enemy we have to take it as an absolute certainty." After Metropolis and Africa, Bruce came to believe that Superman doesn't care too much about human lives. What if his indifference turns into actual hatred for humanity? If it were anyone else, that might not mean much, but Superman? He could be the end of mankind. Consider the gravity of the consequences, the risk is just too great in Bruce's eyes, even if there's just 1% chance of that actually happening. And he's already an older man. If Superman goes evil in the future, Bruce may no longer be capable or even alive to stop him. No, the time to act is now, before it's too late.
Teško mi je krivit Batmana ovje s obzirom kakva lošota je Superman u MoSu, ali quote "He has the power to wipe out the entire human race, and if we believe there's even a 1% chance that he is our enemy we have to take it as an absolute certainty." je totalni promašaj.
Batman je preinteligentan da bi izjavio tak nešto.
Shooter But Alfred confonts him, claiming that Superman is not the enemy, to which Bruce responds with: "Not today. Twenty years in Gotham, Alfred; we've seen what promises are worth. How many good guys are left? How many stayed that way?" This line probably hints at Red Hood or Two-Face. More importantly, it tells us Bruce has seen too many good people turn bad (even he is not who he used to be) which explains why he's so paranoid and distrustful of Superman.
Ovdje sam isto bio 100% uvjeren da će ići na Jason Todd = jared Leto Joker, ali nisu. Šteta.
Dobar razgovor i glimpse u razloge zašto je Batman postao ubojica.
Shooter Clark continues to investigate Batman and has an encounter with a girlfriend and young son of the latest branded criminal that's been killed behind the bars. The woman says words don’t stop Batman, only action - something Superman finds to be true later when he confronts Batman.
Još jedna scena koja služi isključivo podizanju kaosa. Čovjek bi pomislio da je Joker glavni negativac filma, a ne Lex Luthor.
Na žalost, scena je slaba i služi još slabijoj premisi.
Batman branda ekipu i onda ih ubije u zatvoru?
I niti jednom se reporter Clark Kent ne zapita zašto ih jednostavno ne ubije odmah ili nešto.
Još jedan ogroman problem, likovi u filmu u niti jednom trenutku ne stanu i razmisle.
Batman bi trebao biti poznati lik u DCEU čak i prije nego je Clark prvi put obukao plavi kostim što je i pojačano ostalim referancama u filmu.
I niti jednom se nije zapitao ZAŠTO je sad najedamput takav lunatic.
Svi u filmu se prave da Batman nije postojao do sad.
Shooter Batman finds the White Portugese and starts chasing Lex's men through the streets, to obtain the kryptonite. This is the first time we see him kill, showing how extreme and dark he has become. In the middle of the chase, the Batmobile is stopped by Superman who warns Batman his days as a vigilante are over. Batman responds with a threat. It's a short encounter but it's enough to make animosity between the two keep growing, since Superman tries to prevent Batman from fighting crime, and Batman displays his aggressive nature. And if Superman didn't know who Batman is by now, his x-ray vision would almost certainly allow him to see it now.
Iako vidim scenarij u kojem Batman ubija, i razlog za to je u filmu kolko-tolko u redu hintan, nikad ne dobijemo objašnjenje direktno ZAŠTO Batman ubija.
Cijeli film do sad slušamo kak se Batmanu podmeću ubojstva i Clark je manipuliran da misli da je on ubojica i onda bez ikakvog objašnjenja vidimo Batmana da ubija hrpu ljudi.
Besmisleno skroz.
Mislim da su ovdje mogli ubaciti scenu sa početka gdje tako dobro prikažu Batmana, a tamo ostati na prikazu njegovih detektivskih vještina.
Ovak sam ispada da su htjeli prodat što više plastičnih Batmobilea i dobiti što atraktivnije scene za trailer.
Snyderov zaštitni znak.
Sami confrontation Batmana i Supermana je vizualno dobro odrađen i napetost se može rezati nožem.
To je fora.
Shooter Superman visits his mother. She says an important and generally true line: "People hate what they don't understand." And they don't fully know or understand Superman. The same could be applied to this movie, actually. And she adds "Be their hero, Clark. Be their angel, be their monument, be anything they need you to be... or be none of it. You don't owe this world a thing. You never did". Just because he has these extraordinary abilites, it doesn't mean he's obligated to use them and devote his entire life to helping others and acting as a savior. At least not as far as she is concerned.
I tu dolazimo do najvećeg problema sa Supermanom kroz čitavi DCEU, a to je da mu Martha i Jonathan Kent nisu usadili osnovne moralne vrijednosti zbog kojih je on ono što je.
Rekao samo ovo tisuću puta i ponovim još jednom.
Superman nije bog, nije stranac i nije kriptonac.
On je Clark Kent sa Zemlje, odrastao u Kansasu i lik je ljudina. Čovjek prvo, superčovjek drugo.
Dvije najbitnije osobe u životu koje bi mu trebale pružiti dva definirajuća momenta su u MoS i BvS failali mizerno.
Jonathan Kent, njegov otac, u trenutku prije svoje smrti ga navodi da ne spašava stotine ljudi isključivo zato da se ne otkrije.
Scena u koju je nepotrebno dodan jebeni tornado da bi, opet, bilo više materijala za trailer je mogla stostruko bit intenzivnija da je čovjek umro od neke bolesti gdje bi onda Clark shvatio da ne može spasiti baš svakoga i dala bi liku razvoj koji mu tolko očajnički treba.
Prije toga, kad je bio klinac, stari mu doslovno drži prodike jer je spasio autobus pun djece.
Kad ga Clark pita "Kaj sam trebao? Ne spasit ih?" frajer mu odgovori sa "možda".
MOŽDA!!!!
I onda mu Martha Kent, majka, u ovom filmu kaže da nikome nije ništa dužan?
Apsolutni bullshit.
Superman funkcionira isključivo zbog svojih titanskih morala koji su, iako se nigdje ne spominje, praktički isti kao Spider-manovi.
Sa velikom moći dolazi velika odgovornost.
Jonathan i Martha Kent ne bi nikada svome sinu uskratili takav odgoj.
Ovo mi je najveća sramota od svega kaj su napravili.
Shooter The witness that gave a false testimony against Superman fears for her life, seeks protection from the government (senator Finch) and admits she lied. Lois finds out what happened in Africa was a set up and that the bullet she's been looking into comes from Lex Corp.Superman has been asked to join his hearing and face people he's hurt (Keefe) and he decides to show up. Bruce is watching the whole thing on TV, sees Keefe, looks into him and finds out he's been returning his checks, blaming Bruce too for for happened to him. The hearing starts and Finch notices a jar on her desk, with words Granny's Peach Tea on it (a callback to the conversation in Lex's office). This distracts her, she notices Lex's seat is empty and suddently a bomb hidden in Keefe's wheelchair explodes and blows up the Capitol building.
It's a very well made and intense scene, also an event that pushes both Bruce and Clark over the edge. Bruce already feels guilty for not doing more to keep up with his former employee, being unaware of the man’s living situation and the messages sent each month, and now that man died before his eyes, just as he finds "you let your family die" note from him (another thing orchestrated by Lex). Naturally, this only adds fuel to his misdirected anger toward Superman. It's the final straw that makes him decide he really has to go through with killing Superman, to make him pay for everything he's caused and to stop him from doing more damage.
As for Clark, he's already been questioning his purpose and if he's doing the right thing. Having his hearing turn into another bloodbath, seeing all those dead bodies...it's too much for him. A little later, he says: "I'm afraid I didn't see it (the bomb) because I wasn't looking." Everything that the news have been saying, questions about his involvement in the incident that they have been asking, all of it takes its toll on him. "All this time I've been living my life the way my father saw it. Righting wrongs for a ghost, thinking I'm here to do good. Superman was never real." Lois reminds him that the shield on his chest means hope, and he says that it did on his world, but that doesn't exist any more. Another line that is revisited later in the movie.
Poprilično dobro odrađena scena.
Na žalost kasnije saznamo da su kolica od Keefea bila obložena olovom pa Superman zato nije vidio bombu.
Znači Superman, koji je tek od nedavno uopće postao poznat javnosti je svima obznanio da ne može gledat kroz olovo. lol.
Još jedan signature move od Snydera, besmisleni događaju se opravdavaju besmislenim radnjama umjesto da se promisli malo.
Radi se o redatelju koji ima u glavi neke scene i onda puni prostor između sa besmislicama samo da bi došao do tih scena.
Ne mogu to smatrat dobrom režijom.
Mislim pogledao sam Expanse. Ljestvica mi je ipak malo više od toga.
Shooter Superman disappears which only has the public asking more questions, blaming him for the Capitol incident, wondering why someone as powerful as him couldn't stop a bomb only a few feet from him, unless he was somehow involved. We see them burning a Superman doll, showing how more and more people are turning
against him.
Razumijem da bi postojala grupa ljudi koja bi imala to mišljenje, ali cijela situacija je bila očiti setup i većini ljudi bi to bilo jasno.
S druge strane, Clark je u DCEU ratni kriminalac tak da mi je u neku ruku jasno od kud dolaze takva mišljenja.
Još jedan primjer navođenja radnje u željenom smjeru korištenjem iskrivljene logike.
Shooter Batman steals the kryptonite from Lex. Lois searches Keefe's apartment and comes to the conclusion he wasn't intending to die that day, meaning the bomb was placed there by someone else. Also discoveres that the inside of his wheelchair was lined with lead, explaining why Superman wasn't able to see the bomb.
Vidi gore.
Shooter Clark goes to the mountains to distance himself from all the chaos and have his mind cleared. He has a conversation with his dead father (Jonathan), which I took as him remembering a story dad once told him and recreating it his mind. The story is basically about how sometimes you may think you're doing the right thing but you may still end up unintentionally hurting someone. Everybody makes mistakes, but it's easier to live with them if you have the right person by your side. For pa Kent, it was Martha. "She was my world," he says. For Clark, it's Lois. And after that, he decides to return to her. At least that's how I interpreted the scene.
Znači double-downaju na dvije velike greške, Jonathan koji ima totalno poremećen smisao za moral i na to da je Lois Lane os vrtnje Supermanovog svemira.
Na žalost OPET primjer kak se stvari u filmu kroje isključivo tome da bi dovele do nekih atraktivnih scena.
Također, Jonathan Kent ima totalno drugačiji glas ovdje nego u MoS.
Shooter Bruce and Alfred have a conversation in Waynes' mausoleum. We see another reason why Bruce is so jaded and dark, and that's the fact that all his years of fighting crime and all the sacrifices he has made amounted to nothing. Gotham is still infested with crime and no matter how many criminals he takes down, new ones will always keep coming. That's one more reason he's so desperate to stop Superman, to make an actual difference before he dies.
Ah...
Ovo se provlači i kroz stripove. Batman je u borbi sa vjetrenjačama. Svi kriminalci koje zatvori, pobjegnu kad tad iz zatvora.
Na žalost, mi za to ne vidimo niti jedan primjer u filmu. Jedini kriminal koji vidimo je kak on puca rakete i metke po gradu.
Batman bi zapravo tražio način da Supermana pretvori u svog nasljednika.
To ima 500 puta više smisla, al dobro, cilj je da se ovi potuku, a Superman je ovdje masovni ubojica tak da ajde.
Shooter Batman turns on his bat signal. Martha and Lois are kidnapped by Lex's men. Lex throws Lois off the roof of the LexCorp building to get Superman's attention and Superman does show up to save Lois and confronts Lex who reveals that he knows Superman's identity, that he's the one behind many events in the movie. And that he has Martha, whose life depends on Superman killing Batman.
I eto još jedne scene koja je doslovno samo setup za joke kasnije.
Martha je ovdje uključena isključivo da bi Supermanov Martha komentar bio efektivan.
Shooter Now this conversation between Lex and Superman on the roof is one of the best scenes in the movie IMO. We discover more about Lex's relationship with his father who abused him as a child, which answers why Lex is such a psychotic and basically damaged individual. And he is angry at God for not helping him, that's why he says "if God is all-powerful, he cannot be all-good." And the other way around. And here is this godlike alien who claims to be good, and Lex can't accept that. He believes Superman to be a fraud and he wants to expose him. By forcing him to choose between letting Martha die or killing Batman, he aims to prove that he's just a man too. Either not all-powerful or not all-good.
Lex nije najslabija točka filma, svejedno, ovaj razgovor je dosta plitak. Možda je usmjeren kućanicama ili boomerima koji nisu još čuli za glavni Teodicejski problem svemogućeg Boga i postojanja zla koji je danas praktički opća kultura.
Shooter Just before the battle, Superman tells Lois he will have to either get Batman to help him, or kill him. We also get a look at what Diana is doing at this time. She receives an e-mail from Bruce Wayne, containing data from Lex's computer. It's a picture of her from what seems to be early 20th century and videos of other meta-humans (Flash, Cyborg, Aquaman). Now I'm not a big fan of post-credits scenes, but I think this one would probably fit better there. And every meta-human's file has their logo on it, which I found a little silly to be honest. It's just a minor gripe on my part, but still.
Opet glimpse u budućnost. Nemam problema s ovim osim kaj se slažem s tobom. Bolje bi funkcionirao kao stinger.
Čisto usporedbe radi, Marvel bi imao savršeno objašnjenje za pitanje logoa na dokumentima.
Samo da usporedim razinu pažnje na detalje u ta dva universe.
Shooter Superman confronts Batman. He tries to talk to him, despite the fact that he saw during his investigation in Gotham that Batman wasn't a man who could be stopped with words. He saw that as Clark. He saw it as Superman during the Batmobile chase when he warned Batman to retire. He perceived Batman as a merciless, unyielding man and a killer, not much better than the criminals he hunts. And yet he still tries talking to him, but Batman just keeps reinforcing Superman's perception of him with his aggresive approach and complete disinterest in what Superman has to say. His hatred and desire to bring Superman down are palpable. And someone who hates you and wants nothing more than to destroy you isn't likely to care or believe anything you have to say. Not until you force him to listen, until you show him how easily you could end him if you wanted to. But instead you show him mercy, and actually ask him for help. That's how I see Clark's line of thought in that scene. But his plan backfires when it turns out Batman has kryptonite.
They fight and Batman gets the upper hand. Superman ends up on the floor, Batman's foot on his throat. Batman has a kryptonite spear in his hand and he's just about to kill Superman, but Superman manages to utter "You're letting them kill Martha". It confuses and shocks Batman, and after Lois shows up, explaining Martha is Clark's mother and pleading for his life, the realization of what’s really being said shifts Batman's perceptions to the point he now sees himself clearly for the first time in years. He has something of a flashback and sees his younger self in Superman. He realizes he has became the bad guy himself, a bully like the man who killed his parents was. And he isn't about to let another mother, another Martha die. This time he's gonna do what he couldn't as a child - save her. The name was merely an emotional, symbolic catalyst he needed to see through the rage and fear that consumed him.
Sama scena borbe je vrhunska. Snyder je ipak Snyder i tu je pokazao sve svoje umjeće i stvarno je bilo gušt gledati Batmana kako nemilosrdno mlati Supermana.
Tu ću samo spomenuti kao veliki kontrast završnicu MoS i ovo. Iako je oboje Snyder, gledajući kak Zod i Superman izmjenjuju udarce sat vremena je bilo nevjerojatno dosadno.
BvS fight je totalna suprotnost i zapravo ono što i očekujem od Snydera. Nevjerojatan smisao za vizuale, koreografiju i brutalnost.
Sama fora sa Marthom je jedan od najsramotnijih momenata kinematografije.
Pola filma je potrošeno na setup te fore i onda ju još ukenjaju.
Kakvog smisla ima da Superman svoju mamu oslovljava sa imenom u toj situaciji?
Apsolutno nikakvog.
Zar je tolko teško bilo posložiti događaje na način da se u sceni pojavi treća osoba i spomene Marthu?
Samo logika.
Snyder opet dolazi do scene koju ima u glavi tako da tjera likove na apsolutno besmislene akcije.
Shooter Martha still needs saving, and at the same time they find that Lex is up to something in the kryptonian ship. Even though some of Batman's doubts about Superman probably still remain, he realizes he's gone too far by attempting to kill him, and the circumstances force them to join forces and work together for the time being.
Batman saves Martha, providing us with what's probably his best fight scene ever seen in live-action. Meanwhile, Superman reveals what Lex has been doing with Zod's body - mixing his DNA with is own in order to create Doomsday, a backup plan in case Batman fails to kill Superman. As soon as Doomsday is born he tries to punch Lex with his fist, but Superman stops him. A believe this is meant to be a callback to what Lex said earlier in the movie: "No man in the sky intervened when I was a boy to deliver me from Daddy's fist and abominations." By saving the life of a man who brought him so much misery, Superman shows how wrong Lex is about him.
Bio sam jako uzbuđen da vidim Batflecka u akciji i tu mi je entuzijazam za film bio na samom vrhuncu.
Brutalnost sa kojom Batman rješava tu situaciju spada na listu najboljih prikaza Batmana na ekranu.
That said, Superman je mogao spasit Marthu u djeliću sekunde, pogotovo kad vidimo kak je spasio Lois od Warlorda na početku filma.
Lex koji oživljava Zoda je kriminal.
U kojem svemiru bi meni kao gledaocu trebalo imat logike da je on znao da mora nakapat svoju krv na Zoda da napravi Doomsdaya?
Kakvog to smisla ima?
Shooter Superman battles Doomsday and tries to fly him into outer space. As soon as they leave the atmosphere, the government launches a nuclear missile. After the blast, Doomsday crashes back on Earth, while Superman remains in space, slowly recovering. Now I understand they wanted to pay another tribute to Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns, and I suppose I can see why the government would be eager to eliminate such a threat as soon as possible, considering what happened in Metropolis less than two years before. But I still think this part should've been left out, especially because of the Superman's sacrifice that happens not longer after that. We see him "die" two times in 10 minutes, and the fact that we've just seen him recover from a nuclear explosion slightly diminishes the severity of his sacrifice. It's nothing that ruins the overall experience, but for me it does bring the movie's rating down by 1.
Tu se slažemo.
Ja bi samo dodao da bi za borbu sa Doomsdayom, količina destrukcije iz MoS imala puno više smisla nego za borbu sa Zodom.
Shooter I feel sort of the same way about another scene. When Superman and Batman stopped fighting, Lois took the kryptonite spear and threw it in the water. Little later, when she sees Doomsday and concludes that's what Lex has been doing in the kryptonian ship, she jumps back in the water and nearly drowns when Doomsday's shockwave drops half of the building on her. Now, I can definitely understand her actions, but I still can't help but feel that movie could've easily gone without that. But I don't mind it as much as I do the previously described scene.
Slažem se kao i prije.
Lois radi totalno glupu i besmislenu stvar da bi gledaoci imali osjećaj neizvjesnosti pošto već znamo da je Superman očito neubiv i ne može izgubit fajt.
Shooter While Superman is recovering in space, Batman is trying to lure Doomsday to uninhabited port where the spear is. His Batwing crashes and Doomsday tries to finish him with his heat vision, but Wonder Woman jumps in to save the day. Superman returns and the Trinity fights Doomsday. More precisley, Wonder Woman and Superman fight it, while Batman can only watch this visually impressive battle of superpowered beings and wait for the right moment to fire his last kryptonite gas grenade.
Superman hears Lois drowning and goes to save her and retrieve the spear. Wonder Woman is restraining Doomsday with her lasso and Batman is waiting to do his part. Superman sees what he has to do, turns to Lois and says: "This is my world...you are my world." Without context, this comes off as cheesy, but it has its meaning. Facing death, Superman finally learns what it truly means to be human and he no longer refers to Krypton as his world, but Earth. It's also a callback to several earlier dialogues (with Lois, his father, and the one in Knightmare). And Lois was the one who helped him cope with all the negativity, the one who made it all worth it, like Martha was for Jonathan. His world.
Tu isto dolazimo do velikog problema u Snyderovoj interpretaciji Supermana, a to je da Krypton shvaća kao svoj svijet.
On je za svoje kriptonsko porijeklo saznao tek u MoS. I čak i da izbrišemo 80 godina stripova, nema smisla da je tolko više vezan za Krypton nego za Zemlju i nema smisla da tek sad saznaje kaj znači bit čovjek kad je odrasao kao normalni klinac na Zemlji.
Isto tak, ovo "You are my world", nije cheesy, ali je preočito već da je Lois okosnica čitavog Supermanovog story arca kroz DCEU i nepotrebno je.
Znači jedinu vrijednost koju su mu roditelji prenjeli je da mu je žena najbitnija stvar u životu.
Shooter Superman picks up the spear and flies into Doomsday, while Wonder Woman is holding him with the lasso and Batman is shoots the kryptonite gas grenade. Seeing the Trinity work together to defeat Doomsday is epic, but it results in both Doomsday and Superman dying. I didn't find his sacrifice to be emotional the first time I watched it, but I did after the UE, and amazing music that plays during that scene definitely makes it a lot more powerful. As Batman lowers Superman's body and hands him over to Lois and Diana, there is even a cross in the background, a clear Jesus symbolism.
Često spominješ simbolizam, ali svaki primjer simbolizma koji si rekao je užasno očit i in your face.
Ne znam zašto te to tolko impresionira.
Usporedba Supermana sa Isusom je naj lazy stvar koju možeš napravit.
Da ne ulazim previše u zaključak, samo ću spomenut par stvari:
Shooter Bruce asks Diana to help him find other meta-humans. He talks about how he he failed Superman in life, but won't fail him in death. How men are still good and have to stand together. It was Superman's sacrifice that showed Bruce there is still good in the world and restored his faith in humanity.
Wow. Kolko su jednodimenzionalni likovi u ovom filmu.
Batman koji je doslovno zbog jedne gluparije prešao iz "kill superman" moda u "I failed Superman in life, but I won't fail him in death" mode.
Jako lazy.
Shooter They feel like actual human beings, with flaws and everything.
Osobno se ne slažem. Previše besmislenih odluka likovi rade da bi djelovali stvarno.
Ako te zanima kak se rade realni, smisleni i konzistentni likovi toplo preporučam The Expanse.
Također, Cavillov Superman je turbo dosadan. I ne, to nije rezultat Cavillove glume nego Snyderove režije.
Cavill u Witcheru sa jednim gruntom prolije više karizme na ekran nego Superman kroz sva tri filma u koja se pojavljuje.
Shooter But another thing that I believe affected the reception of the movie is that there is a lot of subtext, which is not something most people are used to. And anyone who likes to take things at face value is very likely to misinterpret or completely miss a lot of points made in this movie. No character has a single obvious motivation spoon-fed to the audience. Instead, the reasons behind their actions are contained in almost every scene of the movie. Every event, every symbolism, every reference and line of dialogue.
Mislim da te tu uspjelo prevarit malo.
Subtext je ok, ali film prečesto ubacuje nepotrebne i preduge scene da prenese banalne stvari, a neke detalje koje bi bilo bolje pojasniti ostavlja za interpretaciju.
To je zapravo dosta loša praksa u filmu.
Kužim da ti se svidio prikaz mračnijih i brutalnijih likova, ali to čak nije ni ono kaj ljudima najviše smeta.
Batman je mračan lik i tu je, izuev ubijanja, odrađen jako dobro.
Superman s druge strane nije mračan, ali nebrojeno puta je bio odrađen na mračan način i svaki put je bio kvalitetnije odrađen od ovog.
Vizualno, film je stvarno bomba, ali meni osobno vizuali nisu dovoljno dobri da opravdaju većinu gluposti, pogrešaka i ignoriranja zdravog razuma u nekim momentima.
Snayder nas doslovno tjera nekad da tražimo divlje načine zašto se nešto dogodilo tako kako se dogodilo zato jer on na to nije mislio nego je gledao napravit što atraktivniju scenu.
